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PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 18:17 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Hi,
Where to start? OK me first. I have rheumatoid arthirits and osteo arthiritis bought about by Lupus.

Why do I need help? Well my bike is a Honda XL600LMF. I can get on it sort of ok, but when I get to wherever I am going, or even back home, I cannot get off it! The wife comes out when I get home to help me off it.

So I sat down and had a think and a scratch and decided I wanted a sidecar on it to hold it up at the lights etc and make it easier for me to get on and off, so a friend and I made a very basic trials style chassis for it.
I have made one attempt at fitting it and it waas a disaster, the bike kept trying to go away from the chair, I was expecting it to go towards!!

It made me realise, I havent got a clue as to what on earth I am doing so I phoned up the adaptions officer (bloody nice bloke) and he said get a firm quote from someone and apply for a grant. Sounded nice and easy, until I came to trying that out.
No one would give me a quote as they all said 'we havent got a clue how long it would take, it may be one hour or 10 hours' Fair enough I suppose.

So, that brings me here,is there anyone out there in Somerset who knows more than me about setting the chair up?? I can supply copious amounts of tea, free range eggs, egg butties etc.

Thanks.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:12 am 
Major Windbag

Joined: Mon Apr 04, 2011 11:46 am
Posts: 77
Location: West Sussex
Bill
As you've made your own chair have you considered the fundamental factor of how far the chair wheel is positioned ahead or to the rear relative to the bike's wheels?
Have you checked eBay for a cheapy commercial chair?
I used to ride a heavy outfit and once it was set up it was pretty gentle to ride once I'd had a bit of practice i.e on left handers you accelerate the bike around the chair. Braking could be fun, if you're a bit short of excitement.
Put 'sidecar alignment' into Google and you'll get loads, including this:

http://disabledriders.com/forum/index.php?topic=493.0

Fitting a steering damper helps a lot.
HTH

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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 10:43 am 
Hurricane

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 02:46 am
Posts: 332
Location: fordingbridge Hampshire
http://www.sidecars.org.uk/

maybe try on here for some help.

Stix


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 13:14 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Thanks for those. When I first tried it I set it up with 10" of lead 3/4" toe in and approx 5 degrees of lean out. I sat on it like that the bike suspension went down and it felt scary not moving!!

So I realised then that the bike should be loaded when setting it up and tried again, this time using 3 degrees of lean out loaded. Not moving, all felt well but when I pulled away expecting a pull to the left it dove off to the right, severly to the right!

At that point, I through a massive hissy fit. packed (threw) my tools back in the shed and havent touched it since.

I will have a look at the links you have put up for me and see if they give me any ideas.
Cheers.


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PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 13:22 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Oh, and re e bay, I make a church mouse look rich!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 08:52 am 
Hurricane

Joined: Mon Dec 13, 2004 11:12 am
Posts: 341
Location: Cumbernauld, Scotland
I tried setting my outfit up wi "lead" but that made sidecar sit too far forward of the bike so moved it back till it was in line with the bike and looked better, had different amounts of "lean" but never felt comfortable so set it vertical, did have "toe-in" but can't remember how much and it runs almost straight, do get a wee bit of pulling to the left but only becomes an issue on long motorway journey but never got round to adjusting it again. Don't have leading links as never felt the need for them or the expense of buying them, don't have a steering damper as no need, don't use car tyres just bike tyres.

Ask anyone about an outfit and they'll each give you a different answer but read up on how the experts say it should be done, use that as a guide, then trial and error and how it feels to you is the way to go (IMO) then enjoy :-)

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 09:15 am 
Windbag

Joined: Tue May 24, 2005 21:27 pm
Posts: 64
Location: North Manchester
Don't have more than 1 degree lean out unless experience tells you it's needed. Start with 10"-14" 0f lead and 1/2" toe in and work from there. Having the sidecar chassis level or better still, rising slightly to the nose will make a difference. Don't make the chassis too narrow either as that will massively affect stability. An outfit is a compromise and you need to play about with it to suit yourself. Have you ever ridden an outfit? they are an aquired taste and it usually takes an experienced rider to decide what needs to be done. A lightweight trials chair is not the best thing for a novice to practice on unless you have 3 bags of sand on the chair platform

Rhodgie, I don't understand about 'the sidecar in line with the bike' but no lead usually means lethal.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 13:53 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
:D Even on here I get conflicting answers!! I have no outfit experience. The sidecar chassis thingy was made by a friend of mine and me in collaboration, he works for Lola (the Indy and F1 car people) and welded it up in work for me.

The design was made so it would suit the bike (Big Trail/Enduro) and I am planning to make a box to go onto it.

I have some pics on photobucket, I will see if I can find them. They were taken during the mock up stage.


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 13:59 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Here you go, dont forget this is just the mock up and not all fixings are shown.

Image

Image

Image

Image


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 14:33 pm 
Hurricane

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 02:46 am
Posts: 332
Location: fordingbridge Hampshire
http://www.advrider.com/forums/showthread.php?t=468196

This might give you some help.
But from my years of riding outfits I would say that the turn buckled shown in the mock up pics look vewry spindly and possibly not up to the forces that can be generated in a fast right corner(just an observation).

http://www.sidecarjohn.co.uk/sidecar_fitting.html

Some thing like this page might be usefull as you can go from there to the links and maybe find a better set of insructions.


http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Vintage-Sidec ... 0617432014?
pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts&hash=item4cfa55a7ce


One last one to look at.

http://sidecarland.co.uk/SidecarFittingbasics.aspx
take a look at these fittings and you can see the size of tube used etc.

Stix


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 14:45 pm 
Apprentice

Joined: Sun Feb 21, 2010 19:05 pm
Posts: 21
Location: London
Hi Bill,

we've already 'spoken' on email.

Stix pointed me to this thread, but I didn't know it was you!

As you hopefully know already, I'll give you as much help and assistance as I can.

Cheers,

Rod

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 18:37 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Thanks Stix and thanks Rod!!


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 18:47 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Hmmm, I can see a few places where my own 'theory of fixing' is awry, especially my 'patented' idea about suspension on the chair.

I thought I was being clever in having the wheel movement properly vertical and keeping the wheelbase stable.

That leads me on to this- does the sidecar have to have suspension? It is never going to catty a human cargo (I doubt I'll find anyone as daft as me to try it :) )

Also, my frame is made of square tube, is there any ready made square tube fittings out there?


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 18:57 pm 
Hurricane

Joined: Mon Sep 05, 2005 02:46 am
Posts: 332
Location: fordingbridge Hampshire
Chair doesn't have to have suspension but it does help a bit,if no suspension you must use a steel wheel and not a spoked one as the forces WILL snap the spokes.
I understand you are on a tight budget but take a look at an indespension unit,small light pretty easy to fit and it will give you a reasonable amount of suspension.

http://www.indespension.co.uk/b2c/app/I ... 003&slnk=1

Stix


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PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 19:35 pm 
Windbag

Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 21:30 pm
Posts: 65
Thanks for that, but once you have bought that part you need a roller bearing hub, then a wheel to fit the stud spacing etc etc.

Maybe I am being pessimistic (that is my default setting) but it is never as simple as it seams.


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